The Apple Corps of Dallas (ACD) is the oldest Apple specific users group in the country. We still have our original
newsletter publication, and the first meeting was January 7, 1978.
Upon some research,
we have found several other groups that started up in 1978.
Hi Taylor,
Thanks for your letter. I am a uncomfortable with the idea of
"challenging" groups as to their start date or other information,
especially as one of the main points of user groups is to build
community, not to engender ill will or generate legalistic
complaints. Our boss has a pretty firm position regarding first
groups and every time I put a group in the Bulletin (including the
Dallas group) with a note that they are the first in some way he
requires a deletion of the claim and reminds me that he does not want
to have these claims repeated in the Bulletin or other communications
we send out (first Apple-only group; first FCP or Logic group, first
AppleWorks group, etc.).
For example, the North Orange (Orange County in California) group's
main club started out as an IBM PC compatible group that was founded
in early 1976, with a first "newsletter" in 1975 and first meeting in
1976; when the first Apple computer came along they added a SIG to
meet an interest, yet kept their main focus on IBM PC compatibles.
They list themselves as the second oldest continuously operating club
in the US, but make no claims about their Apple sig's place in the
order of US groups.
I wrote to the group with the 1974 date and it seems that they were a
computer enthusiast group initially - I do not know when they decided
to be a primarily Apple group. There are five groups with a claim of
Jan 1, 1978, so when I did the calculation of percentage, I used your
group, those five and the 1974, thereby placing your group in the
first .008 of all groups currently listed as active. Apple Rock's
database record lists them as late in 1978, so they were not one of
the ones used in my calculation.
I will gladly modify your group's records to indicate a first meeting
of Jan 7, 1978, but am not willing to do an investigative overview of
all early groups. This is especially true in that we have groups that
started before that date but sunsetted, and groups who exist and have
never registered. On a larger scale, many computer enthusiast groups
have an Apple component, and those groups often preceded the start of
Apple, so that they do not register with our database.
You might be surprized, for example, to know that the Locator lists 4
active groups in Japan but there are actually many multiples of
active Apple-specific groups in existence there: at last count there
were over 50 regularly meeting groups in Japan. There are groups in
the US who have been around for ages but prefer to not register, as
well as those whose group fit into the categories of groups that
never show up on the public side of the database, including
educational groups, small businesses, some corporations and trade
organizations.
Apple Rock's Locator record says Oct 15, 1978, although a letter from
the group requesting a mention in the Bulletin listed an earlier
date. Here is an alphabetical list of the groups with a designation
of 1975, 1976, 1977, or 1978 (this is a group of 19 clubs, including
all months of 1978). As you can see, some have changed their name
over the years, another complication in the calculation of whose
group is first.
Apple Computer Information & Data Exchange of Rochester, Inc.
Apple Corps of Dallas
Apple Macintosh Users Group (Sydney)
Apple Pugetsound Program Library Exchange
AppleRock
AppleSiders of Cincinnati
Apple Squires of the Ozarks
Charlotte Apple Computer Club
Colorado Macintosh User Group
Denver Apple Pi
Houston Area Apple User Group
Louisville Apple Users Group
Macintosh User Group of the Southern Tier
Maryland Apple Corps., Inc.
North Orange County Computer Club, MacIntosh SIG
Pennsylvania Macintosh User Group
The Michigan Apple
The Minnesota Apple Computer User Group
Washington Apple Pi, Ltd.
If you check the records you will see that your group is now listed
with a Jan 7 start. Again, it is up to each group to list their start
date, so this would have come from whomever was the ambassador at the
time of the last rebuild (around 6 years ago), and other group's
dates are equally up to each groups' ambassador, not something that
it would be appropriate for Locator staff to interfere with, even if
we had the staff and time to do so.
While a group can claim to be the first in one of many areas, the
program does not take a position on this matter. Apple does not
require legal documentation of date of first meeting, in the same way
that it does not interfere in the internal running of any aspect of
each private user group. If you like, I can bring this to my boss'
attention and ask for a ruling, but I suspect that he would be far
more likely to put out a decision that a group is certainly not the
first, than he would be to name any group as the first.
Regards
Saundra Foderick
Apple User Group Locator maintenance, team lead
Thank you for looking things up and providing some more information.
What group started in 1974? I would like to inquire of them. It may
be they were a computer user group before Apple existed. If they
were, then they are the oldest. But regarding AppleRock, the 1977
date you have does not match the information I got from them, nor
does it match the 1978 date on the headmast of their web page. I
would encourage you to check back with them about what they consider
their official start date.
Regarding Apple Corps of Dallas, our first official meeting date was
Jan 7, 1978. I already sent you the first AppleGram newsletter
announcement sent around in 1977 advertising that date. We also have
a voice recording of our first meeting if you are interested, as well
being on contact with 3 people that attended the first meeting
(Bobbie Ferrell (founder), George Wruck & Ray Thompson).
I encourage you to update our record to reflect our correct start
date. I do not know where the Jan 29, 1978 date came from. It may
be that we first met Jan. 7, 1978, and our first communication with
Apple announcing our being a user group was Jan 29, 1978. But that
is just a guess and I imagine it is something like that. However, it
does not change our official start date and first meeting of Jan. 7,
1978.
Attached is our list of all meeting dates and the locations in the
Dallas area where we met for those meeting.
Regarding being the oldest group still operating, we are going to
keep claiming that until we receive information otherwise. Over the
years we have been challenged several times and each investigation
has only arrived at the conclusion we are the oldest. But we are
open to any information to the contrary and will adjust our claim if
anyone else can reasonably show they met before us.
Thanks for talking with us about this issue.
TAYLOR SHARPE
President
Apple Corps of Dallas
www.acd.us
214-522-5525
=========================<< Part >>=========================
On Oct 20, 2006, at 11:17 PM, sandy foderick wrote:
Hi Taylor, Michael, Linda, and Tom,
Thanks for the question. It is one that comes up a lot and is fun to
research. Unfortunately, the answer is trickier than you might think
for a number of reasons.
First, the dates in the locator are self reported, so that we even
have groups that say they existed prior to Apple's existence (for
example, we have one with 1974 as their date of origin, although
Apple introduced the first Apple on April Fool's day in 1976 to the
best of my knowledge)
The second reason that this is tricky is that the database has been
purged numerous times since Apple User Groups first started, and the
data changes slightly every time the company does a full rebuild.
The third reason that this is hard to answer is that groups often
have multiple dates - the ones in the Bulletin are either pulled from
the database or sent in by a member and often the member and the
database have different years. (Apple Corps file says that it
originated on Jan 29, 1978, which would have been what an ambassador
put in there at some time)
We do have a few groups that have been around for a very long time
and are still active according to the database:
1974 - 1 (either a typo or another type of computer club that added
Apple)
1975 - 0
1976 - 1
1977 - 1
1978 - 16
1979 - 11
1980 - 10
So, what I can say with real certainty is that Apple Corps of Dallas
is one of our oldest groups, and the number of groups that have
lasted 28 or more years is a small number (far less than 1% of our
listed groups). What makes the group really stand out is the level of
activity, expecially since many older groups are cruising along at
best. Apple Corps of Dallas is an extraordinary group.
Regarding the date of origin, if you'd like that changed, either drop
me a note or have your ambassador modify the records. If we can be of
help, let me know.
best wishes
Sandy foderick
Apple User Group Locator maintenance
